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Author Topic: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
PF
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Posts: 5
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Post Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 24, 2018, 09:33
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Need: Technically challenging short course
Current situation: Shortest Tech 5 course  e.g. Clarabeg 5.8km
Problem: Too long for Senior classes

Proposed solution: Short Green 
Already widely used in Scotland and strongly supported

Can be implemented by using a subset of existing tech 5 controls..ie
no extra effort..just a different ratio of map printing

Why not pilot it in 2019

Angus
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 24, 2018, 11:51
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Worthy of discussion and thanks for raising it.
My feeling is that 3 technical courses (TD5) are enough to cater for our attendences. Instead of adding an extra (yet another green) course, I think we reconsider the length of our current courses. Currently we have no guidelines for colour coded events and I assume this will not change until we have a controller of technical standards.

There is always extra effort with extra courses, planner time, controller time, counting contours, printing numbers, extra map box, extra strart column, extra control descriptions...extra confusion etc, the list goes on. This is why I currently don\'t support adding another course.

When I am involved with planning either as planner or controller, I am keen to have Green course at the shorter end of what we usually get (hasn\'t always worked out that way), and brown course can\'t really be too long (within reason of course!) and the blue about half way in between. For Cushbawn, the Green course was 3.9k with 180m climb. Even at that, only 3 compeitors were less than an hour, so while I was satisfied as controller, it would have been no harm had it been shorter.

So if the Green course is reduced in length to cater for the likes of PF, will it be considered too short by many of the current Green course competitors? Perhaps shorten the Blue course a little so some may move up to Blue?

johnmccull-
ough
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 24, 2018, 18:14
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Here\'s the planner\'s tuppence-worth: I would accept that the Green course in Clarabeg yesterday was too long and with too much climb for many of the competitors, in an effort to get them around the out of bounds fields at the top of the map and into some nice forest at the bottom, but I don\'t think that - with our current number of competitors - another course is justified. Nevertheless 72% of competitors finished within the expected time. However,  with the increasing age profile of the orienteering population, that may change.

There were colour course guidelines in the IOA Rules, which specified the expected time for most competitors, rather than the winning time, but they don\'t appear in the current rules, which simply state that the Colour Course Guidelines are being revised. This doesn\'t seem to have progressed much since the 2009 review by the then Controller of Technical Standards, Harold White. His discussion document is here.

If you\'re interested, rounding times to the nearest minute, the % of people who finished within the guideline times at Clarabeg yesterday were:
Brown 79% (Range 64-137 mins)
Blue 71% (Range 62-127)
Green 72% (Range 47-115)
Light Green 55% (Range 36-100)
Red 100% (Range 43-49)
Orange 33% (Range 28-89)
Yellow 13% (Range 24-64).
Percentages include non-finishers.

Anyway, it\'s certainly an area ripe for discussion. 

John McC (Clarabeg planner)

Angus
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 24, 2018, 21:17
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Thanks for pointing us to the discussion document John. We are in need of some guidance and this is useful! This seems to be boiling down to whether we replace Green with Short Green rather than introducing Short Green as an additional course. Though I wouldn\'t change the course name, keep it green but have it equivalent to Short Green. Talk about confusion!

psmythirl
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 24, 2018, 23:41
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PLEASE. DO. NOT. SHORTEN. BLUE. PLEASE!

Val
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 25, 2018, 08:58
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Is the issue partly that the light green is too easy? It\'s been said to me, not just about Sunday\'s course. I know that planning involves compromises for all courses. It\'s cetainly a challenge in most places to make a technically challenging but not too physical a course. If the light green had gone down across the road it probably would have had too much climb. And I know my kids and probably others found the jump from orange to light green a challenge. The Red didn\'t exist then, it\'s purpose should partly address that.

Angus
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 25, 2018, 09:05
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Well if the brown is shortened enough, you could move back up Paul. \"\"
Yes I did throw in shorten the blue remark and its good to get direct repsonse to that to nip it in the bud.

As per my previous post, shortening Green course is perhaps the best compromise, but is this just delaying the inevitable? Perhaps this issue will not be put to bed for long as our orienteering population ages? 

I would like to have opinion from PF what length course would have been about right at Clarabeg?

Colm
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 25, 2018, 15:29
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If the Green Course is shortened to get people out on a Tech 5, and the Blue is shortened to compensate for people that liked a longer Green, then obviously the brown would have to be shortened to allow people get out on a longer blue - would now be the time to mention Bring Black Back?

\"\"

tara100bc
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Posts: 33
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 26, 2018, 08:41
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As an M60 going up an age group at the end of this year, I don\'t want any changes to the 
courses.  Sunday\'s  Green course was fine with me. The trouble I had, was the headless chicken in my
head messing with my brain. That was my own fault. The course itself was great. 
No changes to the Green course, please.
David-
Masterson
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Post Re: Improving challenge for Senior orienteers
on: September 28, 2018, 14:34
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My perspective: I think Green/Blue/Brown are normally in a good place - the lengths and times seem good to me. Light green might seem easy to seasoned orienteers, but coming the other direction, theres a big jump up in technical difficulty from Orange to Light Green, and i never considered Red as stepping stone from one to the other (is it meant to be?). If theres sufficient demand for a shorter Green, I think we as a community could accomodate it, but I\'m not sure if theres enough demand?

 
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